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Post Info TOPIC: What do vegans think about abortion?


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RE: What do vegans think about abortion?
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I still eat eggs, not much but occasionally. But mine are from a local guys backyard chickens. The eggs are there whether I eat them or not so I don't feel bad about it. If I had to eat eggs from the dairy industry I would have to quit.

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that is really really messed up I get that I do There is a contradiction here whatever you scientifically believe to be true about a "fetus" I guess if you have never seen your own baby's heartbeat at SIX WEEKS then you wouldn't understand did you know they can do surgeries on baby's @21 weeks in gestation your putting awful pictures up of these terrible things being done to a living creature ... how do you feel about the pro-lifers who show you aborted fetuses .... how well would that fly

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FYI
Fetal development during the first trimester:

By the end of four weeks gestation

all major systems and organs begin to form
the embryo looks like a tadpole
the neural tube (which becomes the brain and spinal cord), the digestive system, and the heart and circulatory system begin to form
the beginnings of the eyes and ears are developing
tiny limb buds appear (which will develop into arms and legs)
the heart is beating

By the end of eight weeks gestation

ll major body systems continue to develop and function, including the circulatory, nervous, digestive, and urinary systems
the embryo is taking on a human shape, although the head is larger in proportion to the rest of the body
the mouth is developing tooth buds (which will become baby teeth)
the eyes, nose, mouth, and ears are becoming more distinct
the arms and legs are clearly visible
the fingers and toes are still webbed but can be clearly distinguished
the main organs continue to develop and you can hear the baby's heartbeat using an instrument called a Doppler
the bones begin to develop and the nose and jaws are rapidly developing
the embryo is in constant motion but cannot be felt by the mother

By the end of twelve weeks in gestation

the external genital organs are developed
fingernails and toenails appear
eyelids are formed
fetal movement increases
the arms and legs are fully formed
the voice box (larynx) begins to form in the trachea

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SummerC wrote:

What about chic eggs? What is the difference between the two? How does a vegan make an exception?



-- Edited by SummerC on Sunday 7th of August 2011 06:01:19 AM


 This is my thoughts. I will not eat eggs AND I do not believe in abortion - unless health related.

The only type of abortion I find myself reluctantly accepting is the morning after pill, as accidents can happen. (Just for the record I've never used that either). 



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SummerC wrote:

that is really really messed up I get that I do There is a contradiction here whatever you scientifically believe to be true about a "fetus" I guess if you have never seen your own baby's heartbeat at SIX WEEKS then you wouldn't understand did you know they can do surgeries on baby's @21 weeks in gestation your putting awful pictures up of these terrible things being done to a living creature ... how do you feel about the pro-lifers who show you aborted fetuses .... how well would that fly


 Not sure if your comment is at me, who posted the link of the hatchery, or at the person who talked about fetal development?  Can't really answer the question you're asking without knowing for sure??



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about the hatchery was you
the fetal development jayx
I really hate this subject
*sigh*


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I understand, clearly it's a subject you're very passionate about. For myself, as I'd mentioned, I personally wouldn't have an abortion....but I also wouldn't tell another person to feel the same way. Also, I have multiple medical issues that make having children unlikely...so no, I will never hear my baby's heartbeat in the womb. But the reason I don't want to tell another person how to feel about aborting a potential baby, is because, in essence, my rights end where "hers" begin, so-to-speak. Obviously then, the issue then becomes where does the mother's rights end and the fetus's begin. That's a much harder line in the sand to draw than separating a humans rights from an animal's rights. One is pitting one species vs another, the other is pitting the same species against each other, but at different stages of development. So to some extent, there is a technical difference between veganism versus pro life/pro-choice. But I respect that to many people, vegans and vegetarians included, that in the spirit of the ethics and morals of the subject, there might not be a difference when following one's own conscience, because many view the unborn human as the same as a defenseless animal, and thus act to protect both.

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I agree with you. I as well can not have children. Thanks for understanding. This makes cry.


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I'm so very sorry.....hugs to you.


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*hugs* thanks thats very sweet

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*hugs* I understand where you're coming from as I have poly cystic ovary syndrome, it's very difficult for me to get pregnant, even though I'm not thinking about it yet (I'm only 19). Although my auntie has the same, and she has just had twins (the doctor prescribed something to help her chances), so I guess I'll just have to see! :)

Much love to you both

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TY....I have PCOS too, along with endometriosis. And I'm 40 now....so, my odds aren't great. But I'm at peace with it now I guess. Or maybe I don't allow myself to think about it too much? Kinda doing the "if it's meant to be, it will be" thing, if you know what I mean. ;)

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I have endo and im not at peace with it at all I was just given options to either take a shot of Lupron every month that would put me in menopause then take another harmone that could possible give me cancer or I can go through surgery again this is so freakin painful I said no to both of those options I am taking the holistic route *sigh* I really HATE the pain and the fact I'm getting older and hhave no children it is soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo hard *hugs* to both of yall


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If I upset you Summer, I apologise. It was not my intention to upset anyone, just share my beliefs, and point out how maliciously cruel killing young chicks was, as opposed to some mothers having no choice but to have a termination for medical reasons. I'm not denying these things cause terrible suffering to the mother. I had an ectopic myself (another pcos sufferer). The chances of having an ectopic are around 1 in 100, but after having had one, the chances of having another are raised to 1 in 10.

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I had an emotional reaction to what was said. I just found out my endometriosis has come back it ****in sucks! I feel for you. I know ectopic are very painful.

Abortion is a very hard and controversial subject to discuss. No one should turn a blind eye to the cruelty inflicted on ANY animal. That's why I'm here so we (this forum) can educate people.

Thanks so much that ment a lot.

=0)
*hugs*



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Wartsenall, this lines you mention here, were quotations from Annie:)



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Just arrived from my summer holiday and am so happy now as I read all the great thoughts and respectful, kindly conversation. If people would discuss all questions this way, world could be a better place. Thank you!

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One of the things I've noticed when talking with other vegans on message boards, the tone of the overall membership is usually friendlier and gentler than the typical on-line discussion group. Don't know if it's a vegan thing or if I've been fortunate to join nicer vegan groups?


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this forum is rather civil

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When I first saw your question, I thought it would bring some interesting and lively comments.  I've learned a bunch from reading the ongoing conversation and am also impressed with the civility on this board.  My heart goes out to all who have tried to have children and cannot.  



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ty

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TY from me as well.


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Spaz wrote:

One of the things I've noticed when talking with other vegans on message boards, the tone of the overall membership is usually friendlier and gentler than the typical on-line discussion group. Don't know if it's a vegan thing or if I've been fortunate to join nicer vegan groups?


 It is rather remarkable. I hope the forum stays such a gentle place. :) 



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I know what you mean, too often people are harsh etc. I just think that that type of person (whether vegan or vegetarian - both are guilty) cannot be bothered with forums. They're all for having a go at each other on facebook, probably have nothing better to do, and the forum seems to have filtered that! :D

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Oolong wrote:

Wartsenall, this lines you mention here, were quotations from Annie:)


 Had to read back through, but they were :D

Forgiveness... I think it depends on what sort of person you are. I have been known to be friends with someone but still never forgiven them.

The same goes to my parents.

I suppose in some cases it CAN ruin lives, although only when people are hell bent on creating drama imo :) 



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yup some people are always gonna be negative and cause drama they feed on it

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Yeah, my favorite quote as of late is "Arguing with a fool, proves there are two." Forgot who coined it though....


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hah i love that


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Heheehee, it's so true!

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Annie wrote:

I think what it really boils down to though, is the individual's choice.

I was watching an english hospital drama the other day, set in the 50s? (possibly). The point was at the time it was set, abortion wasn't legal (without parental consent - plus was HELLA expensive). This young girl, was made to have an illegal abortion by her boyfriend, and nearly died as a result. In fact dodgey abortions go WAAAAAAAY back, to olden times when women used to ingest dangerous herbs and plants to make themselves so ill they lost the baby.

Luckily we ARE now in a society where children out of wedlock aren't such a problem, so there should be little or no need for the actual abortions.

Although there is a safe option of doing so - although perhaps this is a bad thing, as some women use it as a contraceptive.

@Thorn - That is REALLY insightful. I know that that will always stay with me!


 I guess I don't understand why that would really stay with you exactly. But I had a lot of tests done on me and had a pretty major surgery with a drainage tube in my side, so I have an indention on my side and a scar on my back. I also have a few marks on my foot/feet. I think it all makes me sort of unique tho.



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To know that someone/thing might not be able to communicate, but can still feel pain, I guess. :)

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Ah ok.
:)

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Honestly, I don't think those subjects are related.  And I don't think you would find any consensus among vegans or vegetarians.  If you watch speeches by Gary Youroffsky, he frequently makes that point right at the beginning of his talk, that religion, politics, etc., etc., are not relevant to just not wanting to be cruel to animals. 

 



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True....I think the debate often surfaces because vegans think along the lines of humans and animals being equal. So then people wonder how we apply that concept to human-centered ethical and political questions (like abortion, euthenasia, etc.).

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Spaz wrote:

True....I think the debate often surfaces because vegans think along the lines of humans and animals being equal. So then people wonder how we apply that concept to human-centered ethical and political questions (like abortion, euthenasia, etc.).


 Exactly.



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This has nothing to do with us... it depends on ones life

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Here's Gay Yourlofsky on the subject:

Yourofsky UM 11/06 The Abortion Question
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCfjZHLVOEk&feature=related



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It's not a question of whether or not abortion has any relevance here. This is merely a discussion among people of a similar lifestyle to see what we each think on the subject. Not why or why not we are vegan and why abortion affects that. This topic is on abortion. It is being discussed by vegans. It is a topic that matters. It most likely does not carry relevance to why I became vegan but my ethical reason for becoming vegan affects my opinions. That is what drives this conversation. Not whether or not vegans should or should not support abortion, but what we as a hand full of vegans- no, let me rephrase that- we as a hand full of concerned human beings think on the subject.



-- Edited by Waltz on Wednesday 24th of August 2011 12:08:41 PM

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Nicely put Waltz. It's interesting though. When I initially turned vegan, I did have to think about what that really meant as it relates to my feelings about human issues (not just animals) and wondered if it contradicted my original position of pro-choice. ( I guess I was forgetting that pro-choice doesn't mean pro-abortion. )


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Waltz wrote:

It's not a question of whether or not abortion has any relevance here. This is merely a discussion among people of a similar lifestyle to see what we each think on the subject. Not why or why not we are vegan and why abortion affects that. This topic is on abortion. It is being discussed by vegans. It is a topic that matters. It most likely does not carry relevance to why I became vegan but my ethical reason for becoming vegan affects my opinions. That is what drives this conversation. Not whether or not vegans should or should not support abortion, but what we as a hand full of vegans- no, let me rephrase that- we as a hand full of concerned human beings think on the subject.



-- Edited by Waltz on Wednesday 24th of August 2011 12:08:41 PM


 Exactly! :)



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Abortion is a heinous act and should be considered as a crime equivalent to murder. It’s so sad that still its ongoing in different parts of the world yet governments are not taking any appropriate actions to prevent such acts. https://wrapleaf.com/vaporizers.html



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I don’t know the reason why vegans think about abortion. I think maybe they want to maintain their body well without any damage and that's what they are thinking about abortion. The question is very strange and I don’t know more about it. best bride wedding and event planners



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I think that every woman has a right to decide what to do with her life and body. It doesn't matter whether she is vegan or not

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Most vegans value sentient life and will consider a fetus to have rights once it becomes sentient, so there is no contradiction unless the fetus has developed sentience.

 

 

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I didn't think about it ever ;)


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